KATE KEMP

THE TRANSCRIPT

00:xx:xx WHERE IT ALL BEGINS

KATE KEMP:
Hello and welcome to episode two of Octo Tat Talks.

I'll be speaking with Troy Lavinia who is the founder and CEO of Daily SOS and also the author of The Spiritual Operating System.

We'll be talking about spirituality. We'll be talking about a book that he's got in progress called The Prophet, The Mystic and The Physicist which is about kind of about the intersection of spirituality and science. We'll talk a little bit about another one he has in the works, a detective novel called The Echo Below and we'll wrap things up by covering off on how you can kind of push through when you feel like everything's kind of pushing you down so … the value of community and ritual and visualization and kind of going with the flow. Hope you enjoy. Let’s go!

OCTO TAT TALKS EPISODE TWO WITH TROY LAVINIA

KATE:
I am joined today by founder and CEO of Daily SOS, Troy Lavinia. Um, so Daily SOS is a community really focused helping people achieve mental and spiritual fitness. Uh, kind of ending that struggle and grind. And I met you through actually a LinkedIn message. You sent me a LinkedIn message in September 2024.

Um, and it still it took me it took me a few months to to join the community, but I'm so glad I did. Um, when did you actually start Daily SOS?

TROY:
I started it in September of 2022 was first month that we ran the program.

KATE:
Okay. And then how many members would you say have been through your program at this point?

TROY:
Like 500. Plus or minus, I would guess. Yeah.

KATE:
You talk about on LinkedIn how this program is really focused on a “vision, flow, surrender” approach and how that's actually kind of an ancient approach that's been forgotten. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

TROY:
I'll take it a step back. The origin of all of this is looking for a way to create consistency and stability in my life personally um and success in my business. My my primary business that I still have is a business called Mosaic Research Management and we do research for hedge funds and private equity firms. And I started that business in 2010. And for the first like five to seven years, it was successful, but I really struggled to um accomplish as much as I wanted to um to have as much of an impact as I wanted to and to be able to accumulate wealth and freedom and and success as I thought of it from an entrepreneurial standpoint. And the business was good, but you know, I was still struggling. And I had read I want to say hundreds of books, but, you know, tons of books on business and strategy and how to do business correctly, systems, operations, etc. Um, and I felt like there was really nothing else I could be doing from a strategic or tactical standpoint in business to be successful with it. And so I started to read more about visualization and like rewiring your subconscious mind and your identity. Um, and also starting to incorporate more spiritual principles that were in alignment with my yoga practice and my meditation practice and trying to incorporate those into how I was doing business. And so I came up with a daily program for myself for managing my life and managing my business that incorporated what I thought were the most important spiritual principles and subconscious mind principles that I had read about in many different books and those are vision flow and surrender.

And what I found is that when I created a daily plan for myself or a daily routine for myself that incorporated those principles into my life and into my business, it grew really well and really successfully. I started a subsidiary to that business and we grew from zero employees to 150 employees in 18 months and we were able to sell that business and and create a really great success story for the employees and for myself with that one.

Um, and life has been, you know, pretty enjoyable and pretty easy since I started putting these spiritual principles first. So, vision, flow, and surrender were kind of the ones that that stuck out. If you think about all of the spiritual traditions and a lot of the mystical traditions, these are things that most of them touch on.

VISION

So vision is the idea that everything is grown in consciousness, you know, or in the subconscious mind um and is created as an idea and held in mind, held in consciousness, nurtured with love and gratitude and it exists there before it can exist in reality. And so really important to listen to your heart, listen to your higher power and claim what it is you want to be creating in life. Create a concrete vision for it. Start to visualize that and step into it and embody it in mind and then allow that to unfold. That's the first principle of vision.

FLOW (6:00)

The second is flow and that's the idea of staying aligned with love rather than fear. If we are operating from a place of joy and a place of love from an openhearted place throughout the day and we're making decisions that feel good to us. If we've done that visualization and we've started to become the person that we want to become in consciousness and in mind and in our subconscious, then when we're acting from a place of love, when we're thinking and deciding from a place of love, those actions and decisions are going to be naturally aligned with that new self that we're becoming. And the world will start to kind of ferment around that. Um and it will start to unfold that way.

SURRENDER:

And then surrender is letting go of the old programs and the old self. is that there are old subconscious programs or old aspects of your identity of who you are that are no longer in alignment with what you're becoming. Then you can look at those, love those, be with them, hand them over, surrender them to God, to your higher power, and then eventually let those go with enough of that love and awareness. And what's left over is the new self. And what you hold in mind tends to manifest, tends to be projected out onto physical reality through you if you stay true to it for long enough. And so that's what I found to be true. And the idea is taking those principles and turning them into a daily routine that allows you to incorporate them in your morning routine and then throughout the day so that you can stay consistent with them. So they are not just spiritual concepts or ideas but they're also kind of a way of living, and you're giving them an opportunity to work for you in your life. And then what I found is that when I do these things or when I've taught people to do these things either in my business or in this course, that's kind of the upstream work that is allowing everything to be much easier downstream. Whereas, if you're starting with business strategies and tactics or relationship strategies and tactics or fitness or wealth building or whatever it is, strategies and tactics in the physical, but you haven't first created that self in mind and in consciousness, fixed any of the things within you, or allowed yourself to let go of any of the things within you that are contrary to that, and you've allowed that to unfold through you, then you're going to be fighting an uphill battle with any of the changes that you're trying to make externally. And it wasn't until I started doing these things that I was able to have success in any meaningful way for myself and just lasting happiness. So that's that—those are the principles.

THE DAILY HUDDLES (9:00)

KATE:
It's interesting how you talk about routine and the importance of this, you know, ritual and practice. And so I consider you my spiritual fitness coach, really. I get a lot of value out of these daily huddles that you do where, you know, it's 20 to 30 minutes every morning. We get together, you give us a guided meditation on Zoom, and a lot of that will be new information, new guidance, and things, but there's also a lot of repetition with some of the things that you help ground us in. And that's one of the things I really love about these sessions. The answers are so simple, but sometimes we just need them pounded into our head every single day, and to share that energy and just remind ourselves that it's all right there.

It's interesting that there are so many fitness programs, but when it comes to spiritual fitness, you've talked on a couple of other podcasts about how really the only two places that you will find those things are typically in churches or in programs like Alcoholics Anonymous, where it's focused on spiritual growth, repetition, practice, and community.

MOVING AWAY FROM CHURCH TOWARD SPIRITUALITY

KATE:
I'm curious—I know you've talked previously about how, when you were growing up, your mom kind of dragged you to church, and you didn't really connect with that version of God or that approach. So I’m curious, what was it that didn't work for you that made you go looking for other opportunities to connect with a higher power?

TROY:
For me, being brought to church growing up, it's like a really unilateral decision...and there was very little understanding of why we were doing it. The experience itself felt very esoteric and impractical. At least as a kid, I found church is pretty boring. They were talking about things that felt really cryptic, and you don’t see a whole lot of tangible benefit from it in life.

So, as soon as you're big enough and forceful enough to get yourself out of that necessity to go to church, at least I took the out. And as soon as my mom said, "Hey, fine, whatever. Don't go," I was like, "Great, done. I'm out."

I think a lot of people have the same experience. We're given this idea of religion or this idea of God by our parents, and that's what ultimately what worked for them, or what they inherited and chose to keep. Then they pass that on to us with the best of intentions. But if it doesn't resonate with us, we put it down.

So there was kind of a spiritual dormancy for me from about age 12 through age 23 or 24. I didn't think much about it. Then I came back to my spirituality. I started doing yoga around 2000, and that led to meditation. That led to this idea that there was a higher power and there being a connectedness.

Ultimately, when I would struggle in life, I realized I could call on forces that were larger than myself—God—to help. I'd hit rock bottom or go through struggles where no practical solutions were working, whether it was therapy, exercise, or whatever. So I came back to spirituality out of necessity.

What I found was that life started getting better through prayer, through desperation, through calling on God. Things would improve for a while, and then I'd forget to do it. I'd forget to stay consistent with my prayer, my spirituality, my meditation, or whatever my practice of connecting with God was. Um and life would be pretty good for a while and then yeah, I'd stumble and I'd kind of hit rock bottom, fall on my face again, and then I'd find God once I fell on my face. Things would get better, and you go through a few of those cycles … at least for me … after four or five of them over the course of a decade, I realized I needed to come to this stuff first. If I put my spirituality first every day and consciously took time to connect with my version of God—whatever that means to me, essentially staying open to receiving, enjoying, and sharing love—then life continued to stay pretty good. I stayed emotionally and spiritually fit in the sense that I was open to love, receiving it, feeling it, enjoying it, and sharing it on a consistent basis.

That's how I came to know God: as this force and source of life, love, and life energy that underlies and powers everything we see, and that grows everything we see. The version of God I was given as a kid was some figure in heaven with a white beard who felt kind of rigid, and that didn't appeal to me. So I set that version down for a while.

Part of the nice thing about growing up—if you choose to—is that we're given these big structures or pillars of life like God, religion, sex, marriage, work, and our parents inadvertently give us their version of each of those things, and we grow up with those preconceived notions as our default programs of what those things look like and then, if we're lucky, we have an opportunity to set down and reject those old versions if we like. And maybe there are some that our parents modeled really well—maybe they did marriage really well, and we like that and we keep it. But maybe some versions of those things that they gave us we don't necessarily agree with, and we let those go and then we can kind of create this really nice new life for ourself as an adult that’s really custom to us and what we believe in. And that works well with other people. It’s like a real blessing to be able to do that. And so, I was given one version of God, tried it, didn't really like it, and put it down for a while. Then I picked up another version of God back up, out of necessity, stuck with it, and got to know it for myself.

What I try to do in the Daily SOS is simply give people an opportunity—and a reminder—to connect with their version of God every day. What God looks and feels like for you is different from what it is for me, and if we have a hundred people here, it'll be a little different for every one. The most important thing, I feel, or what I’ve experiences, is to make that connection every day. Remember that you're one with that source of light, love, and life energy, that you can be open to receiving, enjoying, and sharing love, and that you have the opportunity to grow, experience, and enjoy the life you're envisioning for yourself.

Hopefully that answered your question.

KATE:
Absolutely. One of the things I appreciate about the way you present a higher power in your daily huddles is that it's really the God of your own understanding. It's an energy—however you choose to see that. It's just about acknowledging that it's not all you. You're part of it, and it comes through you. We can amplify it. We're little conduits for it. You have a phrase that I absolutely love...what’s the “filament in a light bulb?”

TROY:
Oh yeah. We're kind of the body—we're like the filament between heaven and earth.

KATE:
Yeah, so it’s like we ARE the light, and we can amplify that light. (And it's funny—there's lightning that just struck outside my window as I said that, which is hilarious to me.)

There's never lightning in the Seattle area.

TROY:
Get outta here! You’re in the flow…

KATE:
Yeah, [laughs] and I appreciate that and as I try to invite people into this community, I have a lot of atheist or agnostic friends, and I just try to explain to them that this isn't "white-bearded God" talk. This is energy and connectivity talk. This is ritual talk. It's about trying to connect to something bigger than yourself so you can visualize the positivity, visualize what's next, and how it absolutely, 100% works. It's interesting to me how simple it is, and when we look at the zeitgeist of everything we've learned, how powerful that can be.

I know you've shared in a couple of huddles that you're working on another book, The Prophet, the Mystic, and the Physicist, which fascinates me because it's absolutely the kind of conversation I love to have. What can you tell me about that book and where you are with it?

TROY:
Oh man, I think I have to keep this part kind of brief just because I haven't been working on it. I started this about a year ago. And it’s just the idea is that if we study the commonalities between all these different traditions and teachings, we can start to understand … better understand some of the universal truths of how the universe works.

Right?

There’s Newtonian physics—everything that we can see and like how objects interact with other objects in a physical space—but we really don't have a tangible understanding of what happens beneath that or what's happening that’s causing that. And a lot of the spiritual traditions and mystical traditions have tried to understand that and decode it and then prescribe solutions to it. And quantum physics is trying to do the same thing in a more scientific way.

The idea behind the book is to look at the different major religious and spiritual traditions, and look at the different mystical traditions, and look at quantum physics and see what are the core principles in each of those like modalities. And what are the commonalities so like what does quantum physics say about holding something in mind and having it manifest? And then how do Christianity, Taoism, and Buddhism talk about the same types of things? And we can start to see that different cultures use different languages in a way to describe the same things. So how can we then take that and figure out maybe how the universe, or forces that underly the physical universe—actually work.

/////////

I have a draft, but I haven't touched it in about nine months because I started writing two books at the same time. One was The Prophet, the Mystic, and the Physicist, and the other was a detective mystery novel. I got really into the detective novel, so that's what I've been working on. I want to make more progress and finish that first, and then I'll come back to The Prophet, the Mystic, and the Physicist. I'm excited to return to it.

Thanks for asking.

KATE:Absolutely. So how many books do you have now? You also wrote The Spiritual Operating System to supplement the program, which is fantastic, by the way.

TROY:Thanks. It's free for anyone who wants to read it and see if they want to dive deeper.

I actually wrote the book first. After I sold my company, I wanted to share how I had done it because, from my perspective, it felt remarkably easy. Obviously, luck plays a role anytime you have success, but I genuinely believe it was when I started implementing these spiritual principles consistently that things began happening very quickly.

I wanted to share that, so I wrote a book explaining the three primary spiritual principles that seem to be consistent across traditions. I also described the seven daily practices I used to apply those principles, along with some practices we implemented as a team in my business.

I wrote the book by spending twenty minutes every morning after meditation writing for three months. Then I hired an editor, cleaned it up, and self-published it.

But I realized I didn't know how to market a book. If I really wanted to help people, it was going to be difficult to get them to read it. Even if ten thousand people bought the book, maybe only five percent would finish it. And with a book like this, success isn't about reading it—it's about implementing the practices. So maybe a thousand people would read it, and perhaps fifty to a hundred would actually apply what they learned consistently.

I realized I'd have a much better chance of helping people through a course or program where they could actually practice these ideas. That's why I created the program, and why I decided to give the book away as a free PDF to people who joined.

For a while, I tried to build a business around the program because I think content businesses are fascinating. We were creating a tremendous amount of content—a lesson and a meditation every day—which could be turned into mini-courses and other resources. Charging a small subscription fee while creating a lot of value seemed like a better business model than selling books.

For about two years, people subscribed, received the book, joined the daily huddles, accessed the 21-day course, and used the meditation library. Eventually, though, I got tired of trying to figure out how to market it successfully. I never really cracked that code.

So now it's simply a WhatsApp group, as you know. People can join and dial into the daily Zoom meditations. That's where things are today.

KATE:When I first joined the program, I'd attend the huddles, and like you said, the answers were all right there. Everything was accessible. But it's difficult to get over that hump of actually doing the work. The 21-day reboot is simple and clearly laid out, but it still took me six or seven months before I finally said, "Okay, I'm going to do this."

I also followed your advice about creating a project you're passionate about and simply putting twenty minutes a day into it. That's basically three snooze-button hits. It doesn't seem like much.

TROY:I know.

KATE:But why is it so hard?

TROY:I don't know. That's exactly what I'm struggling with right now. Let's think it through.

I'm doing most of the habits, but over the last month or so I haven't been spending those twenty minutes a day on the things I'm trying to create. The whole idea—and what Kate was talking about—is that if you're creating something, whether it's a work project, your own business, a relationship you want to improve, a book you want to write, or anything else, you clear the decks and sit down for twenty minutes.

If you visualize what you're creating in a joyful way, it really works, as crazy as it sounds. For example, when I'm writing this detective novel, I set a timer for twenty-two minutes. The first two minutes I simply imagine the finished result. I think, "This is amazing. I created this detective series. People love it. I love making it. These characters feel real. Keanu Reeves is playing the lead in the Netflix adaptation." It's like, "Wow, this is incredible." I genuinely enjoy imagining bringing the story to life. Even just thinking about that for five...

Even after just five seconds of visualizing it, I start to get excited. I haven't worked on the book in a few weeks because I've been procrastinating and making excuses. But when I do that visualization, I think, "All right, let's go." Then I sit down, set a timer for twenty minutes, and work. When the twenty minutes is over, I stop.

It's actually very easy to keep going. Most of the time, once you've worked for twenty minutes, you're on a roll and you want to continue. Sometimes that makes sense, but in most cases I'd say stop. Stop after twenty minutes because you're creating momentum within yourself, around you, and, I believe, in the universe.

It's like you've stepped into your garden. In my case, that garden is this book. I've shined love, attention, and awareness on it, and those are the things that help something grow. I've done the work related to it. Then I can step away, trusting that God and the universe will continue growing it. Just like if I went into a garden, tended the soil, watered it, and made sure it had enough light, I wouldn't need to stand there for twenty-four hours to make it grow. Nature—and God—take care of that. My job is simply to spend a little time tending it every day.

I think it's the same with anything creative. When you come back the next day, you do another twenty minutes, and now you have even more momentum. You're doing twenty minutes of work, and then God—or whatever you want to call it—is doing the other twenty-three hours and forty minutes. Eventually the project will require more than twenty minutes a day, but if you're stuck or haven't worked on it for a while, twenty focused minutes is an incredibly meaningful amount of time.

I wrote my first book twenty minutes a day. I started my last business twenty minutes a day. Eventually those projects demanded more than a single work block, but that twenty-minute habit really is magical.

In my case, I've had a lot going on over the last month. But whenever I catch myself saying that, I have to ask, "How badly do you really want this thing?" Everybody says they have a lot going on. I never want to use that as an excuse.

I could sit down for twenty minutes a day and work on this book. I want to finish it. I think I know what's actually happening. I've written a 380-page detective novel that I genuinely like. I'm on the fourth draft of revisions. It's basically done, but I haven't shared it with anyone, and I don't know how to market it.

So I think what's underneath my procrastination is fear. I've created something I love, and I'm afraid people won't get it, won't like it, or that I'll try to market it and it won't work. That fear of failure is sitting right there as the next step, so I've subconsciously pulled back and found other things to occupy my time. My days are full, but I haven't worked on the book.

That's why I think having an accountability partner or group is so valuable. When I was writing my first book, I had my mentor, Gay Hendricks. Every morning I'd text him, "I did my twenty minutes." That simple act was incredibly helpful.

Whether it's twenty minutes or an hour, if you consistently dedicate a little time every day, you'll make remarkable progress surprisingly quickly. The project will either grow into the success you imagined, or it'll grow into something that shows you it isn't actually what you're meant to pursue anymore. Either way, you won't have abandoned it through procrastination or quit before giving it a real chance. You'll have seen it through to its natural conclusion.

That's important because I believe if God, your higher power, the universe, or your creative self places something in your heart and mind, it's there for a reason. Maybe it's your podcast. For me it's this novel. Maybe it's another business idea. Whatever it is, it's been placed there intentionally.

It may become exactly what you hoped, or it may become something entirely different—just like a plant in a garden sometimes grows into something unexpected. But I think our responsibility is to tend that vision a little every day so we can see it through to completion.

When we do that, we're opening a channel. When we connect with God and open our hearts, we open a channel of love. I think creativity flows through that same channel. When we spend twenty minutes each day working on what our hearts are calling us to create, we keep that channel open. And abundance flows through that same channel as well.

I've found that when I stay open to love, stay open to creativity, do a little bit of the work every day, and remain generous, everything begins to flow naturally. But if I start closing myself off in any of those areas, the channel narrows. I start feeling congested, closed down, even depressed.

So when I take time every day to connect with God, feel love, share love, live openheartedly, and do a little work on what I've been called to create, life unfolds and flows through me beautifully. Which means I need to get back to work on this book. I've been feeling a little congested lately, and I know why.

KATE:Maybe we need to become each other's accountability partners. I was inspired by your twenty-minutes-a-day practice, so I started writing a sci-fi love story. I'd mostly written short stories before, and I wanted to challenge myself to write a full novel.

My aunt was writing something too, so for about six months we did exactly what you recommend. Every time one of us finished our twenty minutes, we'd text the other person: "I did it." That was it. No sharing pages, no critique—just accountability. If one of us hadn't done it yet, that text was often enough to get us moving.

I think it's similar to working out. For a lot of people—including me—it's much easier to show up for a yoga class than it is to do yoga alone at home. There's something powerful about knowing someone else expects you to show up.

When I stopped having that accountability with my aunt, the excuses started creeping back in.

I also feel like whenever we're really tapped into something—when we're acting as a conduit for the universe to bring something into the world—there are forces that seem to push back. Suddenly the imposter syndrome appears. Excuses show up. You get sick. You don't feel like working. It's almost as if you're being asked, "Do you really want this?"

Even when you're busy, even when work runs long, even when you're frustrated or exhausted, are you still going to sit down and do it?

It's like we're trying to capture the lightning that's outside right now. We're trying to channel it, to show that we can handle it. But there are always going to be challenges along the way...That's where things always seem to break down. You miss a couple of weeks, and then you start thinking, "Do I even care anymore? Maybe I'm on to something else." I really do think it comes back to accountability. Maybe we should check in with each other. "Did you work on your mystery novel? Did you work on your sci-fi book?"

TROY:I think we should definitely do that.

That's what happens when we start making progress. There's still this old self inside us—the smaller self that wants us to stay small because small feels safe. It creates this natural resistance whenever we begin moving toward growth and creation. It actually means well. It's trying to protect us because, historically, standing out could be dangerous. Our biology evolved to keep us with the tribe.

The problem is that when you're being called to create something and you're not doing it, you start to feel dead inside. So we have to keep taking action while also giving love and attention to the part of ourselves that's afraid. We don't ignore it or shove it down. We notice it, appreciate how hard it's worked to keep us safe, and then keep moving anyway.

That's usually what happens whenever we begin making real progress.

KATE:It's interesting because SOS—your program—stands for Spiritual Operating System. You talk a lot about rewiring and reprogramming ourselves, almost like we're machines that can install a new operating system. That old program—Life 1.0—says, "Try something new and you die." We need to upgrade to Life 3.0, where you try something new and you fly. But it's hard to uninstall that old operating system. It's like trying to throw away the old floppy disk and realize you're in the cloud now.

TROY:Oh my goodness. Yeah. It's so hard.

KATE:That's why community is so helpful.

TROY:Very. I actually have a group here at my house right now. When we get off this call, we're going to work for two hours, and afterward we'll spend about half an hour talking about what we worked on. We won't necessarily share every detail, but we'll talk about our progress.

That's going to be really good because I can't hide during those two hours. If I know I'm going to have to tell people what I worked on, I'm much less likely to procrastinate. It would be nice to create more environments like that, where people can hold each other accountable in a creative and healthy way. Everyone in this group is working on something different. A few are artists, others are entrepreneurs, but the accountability is what matters.

KATE:That's awesome.

TROY:I really need a kick in the ass right now, to be honest.

KATE:I hear you. It's so easy to make excuses. It's so hard to do the thing.

TROY:Sometimes I catch myself thinking I'm stuck because I'm processing trauma or overthinking something. But eventually I have to come back to the basic checklist: Am I sleeping well? Am I exercising? Am I eating well? Am I doing creative work?

If I'm not doing those things and I don't feel good, maybe it's not because of some deep unresolved issue. Maybe it's simply because I'm not doing the things that make human beings feel good. One of those things is creating something. That's really what's been happening for me.

KATE:That's awesome. So what's next? We've got the detective novel that will eventually star Keanu Reeves in a Netflix series. What else do you have brewing? I know you're working on about seventeen different things.

TROY:Right now my primary focus is Mosaic. The team that's running it is doing a really nice job, and it's been a good turnaround year for us. I'm still giving that some attention.

I'm also continuing with Daily SOS. From a growth perspective it's in a holding pattern right now, but we're still hosting the daily meditations. I want to come back to it because I think there are a lot of ways to turn these concepts into programs and other resources that could really help people. I'm starting to get excited about that again, so I'll probably begin working on it more over the next few months.

Then there's The Echo Below, the detective novel. I want to finish that. After that I'll return to The Prophet, the Mystic, and the Physicist, which explores spirituality and the underlying nature of reality.

I've also started working with a friend on a new AI platform focused on healing and personal growth. The idea is to bring together all the different therapeutic and healing modalities someone might be using.

Imagine you're seeing a talk therapist, a psychiatrist, doing breathwork, participating in psilocybin-assisted therapy, bodywork, somatic therapy, and other healing practices over time. Right now those experiences are completely disconnected. There's no unified record or thread tying them together. Maybe your therapist has a few notes, but you don't really own or see the bigger picture.

We want to create a platform that brings all of those sessions, transcripts, and insights together so you can set goals for your healing, track your progress, and see how everything connects over time. I think there are now intelligent ways to do that that could help people make much more meaningful progress in their healing.

That's something I'm excited to work on.

KATE:I like it. If people want to join Daily SOS, what's the best way?

TROY:Just go to DailySOS.com, sign up there, join the WhatsApp group, and come to the daily huddles. You'll also get access to all the content in the school platform. Everything is free now, so people can explore it and see what resonates.

KATE:Awesome. I've really enjoyed this conversation and getting to dive a little deeper into how all of this started and what you're building next. I'm looking forward to our next huddle. It's always a pleasure.

TROY:Same here. And let's start that text thread. We'll get the accountability going.

KATE:Perfect. I love it.

Before we wrap up, you've done a lot of podcasts. What's a question you wish I had asked? Is there anything you wanted to talk about that we didn't get to?

TROY:One question that's always interesting is: What are you most excited about in life right now?

Another good one is: What's giving you the biggest challenge in life right now?

If someone is willing to answer those questions honestly, the conversation gets really interesting. I always find it fascinating to hear about people's challenges, especially people who are successful. They don't...

I think it's always interesting to hear about people's challenges, especially successful people. They don't talk about them very often, but when they do, you realize there are really only four or five big challenges that all of us share. It's comforting to recognize that everyone is working through some version of the same things.

KATE:What would you say is your biggest challenge right now, besides putting your mystery novel on the shelf when you shouldn't?

TROY:
Oh boy. Do you have another hour?

KATE:
I do!

TROY:
At a high level, I think I've recently uncovered what feels like one of my deepest old programs—the root of a lot of the struggles in my life.

I'm getting divorced. I'm starting to date again. I'm making new friends. I'm putting myself out there and opening myself up to people more than I have in a long time. That has brought a lot of sensitivity to the surface.

What I've discovered is this old belief, probably from childhood—or maybe even something inherited, depending on what you believe—that if someone really gets to know me at my core, they'll discover that I'm unlovable. On the surface I like who I am, but underneath there's this fear that if people truly know me, they'll find me boring, not good enough, or somehow fundamentally unlovable. Then they'll reject me, exclude me, and I'll end up alone.

That's the program.

Letting people truly see me triggers it.

Historically I think I just repressed it. I wasn't really aware of it, and I was still able to build a happy, successful life. But now it's come to the surface. It's like I've been digging for years and suddenly uncovered this huge fossil. Now I have to keep living my life while giving that part of myself love and awareness instead of pretending it isn't there.

It can be painful because the more I open myself to a new partner or new friends, the deeper those relationships become. That's wonderful—I have a level of love and connection in these relationships that I've never experienced before. But at the same depth, this old program shows up, telling me I'm unlovable and that eventually I'll be rejected.

So I have a choice. I can stay on the surface, keep relationships shallow, and retreat into old safety patterns whenever things start getting too close. I can push people away, avoid showing up, or become socially withdrawn.

Or I can keep going deeper. I can stay open to love and connection, even though it brings me face-to-face with this old fear. The work is learning to give that fear enough love and attention that it begins to soften and transform, so I can experience deep connection without that fear constantly overriding everything else.

That's probably a deeper answer than you expected, but that's what I've been working on over the past couple of months. It's challenging, but I think it's a good challenge. I'm really loving these new friendships and relationships, and I'm trying to love that part of myself as much as I can.

KATE:
That's really beautiful. I appreciate you sharing that.

It's interesting because I've had a tendency to avoid working on those deeper issues by staying inside the comfort of familiar relationships. Everything feels fine because there are routines, expectations, and familiar patterns—even if they're not healthy ones.

Then, when those relationships end, you suddenly see everything clearly. You start asking, "Why did this happen? Why does this pattern keep repeating?" Eventually you arrive at that core wound and think, "Oh no! I'd rather hide from this than deal with it."

But I also think that's a beautiful place to be. When you're vulnerable enough to see it clearly, you get a choice. You can run from it, or you can ask, "Why do I feel unlovable? Where does that belief come from? What are the 'I am' statements I'm telling myself that keep this story alive? And how do I begin imagining something different?"

That's difficult work, but it's possible. You've done it in so many other areas of your life. Now it's right there in front of you, and there's a responsibility to keep looking at it.

TROY:
Yeah. I think the way this resolves is simply by keeping it in the light—continuing to bring it love and awareness. Over time, that's what heals things.

The key is recognizing it when it comes up, noticing the discomfort, and not immediately acting from it or falling back into the old patterns that reinforce it.

That's probably my biggest challenge right now. It feels fundamental. Even though it shows up most obviously in my relationships, it's much more universal than that.

It also explains why I've been hesitating to finish my book. Publishing the book is another way of letting people truly see me. It's another situation where I fear being rejected or judged. As I heal this deeper belief, I think a lot of that fear around sharing my work will naturally begin to disappear.

That's one of the beautiful things about the healing process. In Daily SOS and the 21-Day Program, you set a meaningful goal for yourself. As you pursue that goal, whatever old wound needs healing naturally rises to the surface.

Maybe your goal is to build a great relationship. As you pursue it, this old belief emerges. Then you can surrender it, heal it over time, and not only become more capable of having the relationship you want, but actually become a different person in the process.

Suddenly you're no longer afraid to publish the book. You're no longer afraid to pursue other opportunities. And then the next layer comes to the surface to be healed. That's the ongoing work.

That really goes back to what you teach about focusing on a handful of key areas instead of trying to manage everything at once. When you're tending your own garden, you keep it balanced.

When we're going through something painful, it's easy to pour all our energy into that one problem and neglect everything else that's important. Then we end up feeling even worse.

KATE:
Listening to everything you've shared today, it all comes back to ritual, balance, and positive reinforcement—even when those things feel difficult. I also love that you've surrounded yourself with people who help create that environment of accountability. You're not cocooning in isolation. You're cocooning together so you can emerge stronger.

TROY:
Community is really healing, for sure.

KATE:
Absolutely. I'm grateful to be part of your community, and I hope this conversation encourages other people to join us. The more people sharing positive energy and supporting one another, the easier—and more enjoyable—the world becomes.

TROY:
Thanks for having me. This was a really fun and genuinely helpful conversation for me too. I appreciate it, and I hope other people find it helpful as well.

KATE:
Awesome. All right, Troy. I'll see you soon.

TROY:
All right. Bye, Kate. Great to see you.

KATE:
You, too.